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Voice This!

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 Podcast: Voice This! 

Ep5: Prototyping with Robert Bruchhardt

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Show notes (unedited)

This podcast is about conversational AI, and how to prototype ideas for this technology. Fariya Mostafa, the host, speaks with her guest Robert Bruchhardt, about his work in the automotive industry and how the past year has influenced digital transformation in companies. He also discusses how voice can be used to improve various aspects of a car's performance.

Voice technology has been around for a while, but it has only recently become more sophisticated. Mercedes-Benz was one of the first companies to introduce voice controls in a car, and now many other companies are following suit. This technology is becoming more and more popular, and it is revolutionizing the way we interact with our cars.

Robert discusses the history of voice assistants and how they have evolved over time. He argues that while there are some limitations to voice assistants, they have become increasingly useful in recent years. He cites the example of navigation as one of the best use cases for voice assistants in the car.

Prototyping for conversational AI involves creating a mockup or wireframe of the product to test its feasibility and user experience. This can be done through paper prototyping or by using tools like Alexa Skills Kit.

Robert describes how to prototype for voice applications, urging technical people to create a real voice prototype using available SDKs, and non-technical people to use the "visitor force" approach of chatbots.

He discusses the importance of prototyping in the context of user experience design and argues that it is crucial to test prototypes with users in the actual context in which they will be used, in order to get accurate feedback.

Robert urges people to focus on prototyping as early as possible in their process, as it can be a much better way to pitch and understand an idea than a concept or PowerPoint presentation. They also recommend trying out different tools to see which works best for the technology being used.

Robert has five takeaways for listeners:

1. It is important to consider what you want to do and what you are waiting for when it comes to features in order to avoid having to redo a lot of work later on.

2. A simple prototype can often be modeled using existing tools and does not need to be fancy.

3. The most important thing is to get feedback and iterate based on that feedback.

4. It is helpful to test prototypes with a large and diverse group of people.

5. There is no set time frame for prototyping, but it is important to have key performance indicators to measure success.

Robert discusses how prototyping with screens can be complex, but oftentimes it is not necessary to include screens right away. In the automotive context, screens can be distracting to drivers, so it is important to consider driver distraction when prototyping.

He believes that chatbots are a good way to get feedback on an interaction, but they can also be misleading because context matters. When prototyping products in the automotive industry, Robert looks for results that show how the product will work in reality.

Robert also discusses ways to measure the success of a voice assistant, specifically in terms of productivity applications. One metric they mention is the amount of time it takes the user to complete a task. Other metrics mentioned include user satisfaction and likelihood of recommending the voice assistant to others.

He suggests that it is better to prototype early on in a project in order to get feedback from users, rather than spending time on detailed planning. Robert gives an example of a time when he wish he had done this, as it would have saved him time in the long run.

Robert advocates for not using PowerPoints, but rather creating prototypes to quickly get an idea across and then iterating on it. They argue that this is more effective in conveying information and understanding to stakeholders. They also mention that in terms of prototyping, it's often more effective to just think on the spot and figure out a way to get the prototype out, rather than preparing something in advance.

They also discuss the benefits of giving employees time to prototype their ideas, without worrying about whether the idea is feasible or not. Robert notes that this can help teams to come up with new and innovative ideas. He also mentions that it is not necessary for everyone on the team to be dedicated to prototyping, but that having some people dedicated to it can be helpful.

Some myths or misconceptions about prototyping that people have are that it is only a 24-hour thing, or that it is only for people who are experienced in the field.

Fariya and Robert describes a common misconception about voice user interfaces (VUIs) - that they require a linear, menu-based approach. They argue that this is not the case, and that VUIs can be more easily prototyped than other types of user interfaces.

They go on to discuss the importance of considering user needs when designing prototypes for voice assistants. It is important to consider what users might want to do with the voice assistant, and to design the prototype accordingly. Additionally, it is important to keep in mind that users may prefer to use voice commands in some situations, and may prefer to click a button or do something else in others.

Robert discusses how to ideate for cars and how to prototype for voice and mentions that sometimes it is necessary to remind oneself to take a step back and consider whether voice is the best option for the task at hand.

Robert and Fariya discuss the difficulties of implementing voice-based conversation AI, especially in large companies. Robert argues that it is often easier for a single developer to create a pure voice experience, but that it becomes more difficult when other factors are involved.

The challenge for conversational AI is to provide a seamless experience across different platforms and devices. This is especially difficult when there are many different players involved, each with their own ecosystem.

In the future, it will be necessary to get different ecosystems working well together in order to automate various aspects of life. This is a tough project, but it is possible to achieve. For example, it would be possible to automate exercising using voice applications and smart technology. This would improve people's motivation to stay healthy and fit.

They also discuss the pros and cons of using voice technology with young children. They are unsure of how much screen time or interaction with voice assistants is appropriate for children, and whether or not the technology can teach manners.

Robert talks about the importance of mindset in prototyping, and how important it is to keep iterating in order to eventually get to the goal. He also talks about how the voice assistant technology is currently going through a bit of a down period, but encourages people to not give up and keep moving forward.

Fariya Mostafa says she enjoyed recording this episode and thought it was interesting how the concepts tied back to previous episodes. She appreciates how Robert brought up points that got them thinking about what prototyping means in the context of voice and automotive design.

If you like what you've heard, Fariya suggests subscribing and following the show on social media.

Disclaimer: Content created by reNotes from the podcast transcript is an example only.  reKnow does not own the original podcast and all content on this page, including content derived from the podcast, are the property of the podcast owner.  Being featured as an example does not imply the podcast owner is a reNotes user.

Description (unedited)

In this episode of the Jan Fran Has Issues podcast, Jan Fran discusses the recent election in Australia with guests Grace Tame and Elizabeth Watson Brown. They discuss the surge in support for independent women candidates and the increase in support for the Greens. Tame is excited about the new structure of politics in Australia, which she believes is moving away from the purely two-party system. Watson Brown is hopeful for the future and looks forward to shaking things up in parliament.

Article (unedited)

The Rise of the Greens in Australian Politics

In recent years, the Australian Greens party has seen a surge in support, both in terms of votes and in terms of representation in parliament. This is a historic moment for the party, and one that is indicative of a shift in the political landscape of the country.

Dan Ilic discusses how the Australian Greens party did well in the recent elections by connecting with a wide range of voters, including those in suburban and rural areas. He attributes their success to the party's comprehensive platform of policies and their willingness to listen to voters' concerns.

The Greens party in Australia is hoping to use its newfound power in the country's parliament to push for stronger action on climate change. The party's representative, Elizabeth Watson Brown, says that they will be negotiating and pushing for their desired outcomes inside the parliament. Some of the things they are hoping to achieve include stronger emissions targets.

Watson Brown is interested in working with TEALS on climate change, integrity, and treatment of women. She believes that these are important issues that need to be addressed.

The rise of the Greens in Australian politics is an exciting development, and one that is sure to have a major impact on the country's future.

Social Posts (unedited)

Post 1
If you're interested in politics, this is the podcast for you! On this episode, we have Grace Tame, who was recently named Australian of the Year, and Elizabeth Watson Brown, who is the new Greens MP for the seat of Ryan in Brisbane. They discuss the election results and what they mean for the future of Australia.

So if you want to hear two amazing women discuss the future of Australia, make sure to tune in to this episode of Jan Fran Has Issues!

Post 2
Listen to the latest episode of Jan Fran Has Issues to hear Grace Tame, Australian of the Year, and Elizabeth Watson Brown, new Greens MP, discuss the election results and what they mean for Australia's future. These two powerful women provide insightful commentary on the changing landscape of Australian politics. Tune in now and be sure to subscribe to get future episodes!
Post 3

Listen to this episode of Jan Fran Has Issues to hear about the recent elections in Australia and what they mean for the future of the country! Guests include Grace Tame, who was recently named Australian of the Year, and Elizabeth Watson Brown, the new Greens MP for the seat of Ryan in Brisbane. They discuss the election results and what they mean for the future of Australia.

Find out more about the surge in support for independent women candidates and the increase in support for the Greens, who are on track to win a record number of seats. Grace Tame is excited about the new structure of politics in Australia, which she believes is moving away from the purely two-party system.

Don't miss this interesting discussion about the future of Australia!

Original transcript used by reNotes

Jan Fran Has Issues - Ep 8 - Grace Tame + Elizabeth Watson Brown

For the FINAL Jan Fran Has Issues we speak to former Australian of the Year Grace Tame and the new Greens MP for the seat of Ryan (Brisbane) - Elizabeth Watson Brown. 


Unknown Speaker  0:00  
This episode is supported by the jib foundation. final results are still being tallied. But one thing is crystal clear the 2022 election has delivered a seismic shift in Australia's political landscape. It's a difficult night for Liberals and Nationals around the country is nights like this always.

Unknown Speaker  0:22  
Tonight, the Australian

Robbie McGreggor  0:24  
people have voted for change.

Unknown Speaker  0:29  
Your Excellency, and present the honorable Anthony Albanese is to be sworn in to the office of Prime Minister

Unknown Speaker  0:36  
is Up up and away for Anthony Albanese for his de vous on the international stage at the quad Leaders Summit in Japan.

Robbie McGreggor  0:43  
Jiang Fran has issues breaking down the election one issue at a time brought to you by rational fear.

Jan Fran  0:55  
Oh my goodness. Welcome to the final episode of Jan Fran has issues we did it Daniel.

Dan Ilic  1:05  
Jeanette, I'm so excited. I can't believe it. Have you have you sufficiently gotten through all of the issues now that we are out the back end of the election? I have any issues left?

Jan Fran  1:15  
Oh, my I am completely still riddled with issues, both political and personal. Remember, at the very first episode, you said that you could act as my shrink. It begins now. My do

Dan Ilic  1:28  
all right. As long as I don't have to act as your midwife, because that's what I'm most stressed about. Because you're about to I'm pretty impressed. You managed to hold your little your little daughter in there for her funeral for a few more weeks while we got this this this podcast out my Little

Jan Fran  1:46  
Bear Bear. Yeah, no. still firmly inside. I've given it permission to exit now that this podcast is done and now that the election is done. So we'll see how

Dan Ilic  1:57  
excellent very diligent, Jan, very diligent I am be, you're gonna be a great mother vanquishing discipline like that.

Jan Fran  2:05  
So look, I'm not going to go over the election results too much, because it's been about a week since Saturday happened. But my God, it was massive. So many big wins so many huge surprises. We're gonna get to the two that we thought were particularly interesting in just a second. But before we go to those two big issues, let's discuss, let's, let's do the thing that we love to do over the course of the week and take issue with something. What are you taking issue with this week, Daniel, our final week of the party.

Dan Ilic  2:34  
I'm taking issue with this incredible Op Ed from Chris Yeoman in the Sydney Morning Herald and the headline made me burst out laughing in the cafe as I turned the paper, the headline was the agonizing birth of a new era.

As, as someone who doesn't shy away from partisan chips, Chris, Yeoman definitely would have had to have an agonizing birth of this new era, because somehow he managed to keep his eyes closed as to what the independents were doing in the world out there. So it made me laugh. It made me laugh out so loud, laugh out loud, so much. There was a guy to two tables next to me, he turned to me and said, Oh, sounds like a good one. I said, it is. It's really funny.

Jan Fran  3:17  
So what was what was the what was the theme? What was the Op Ed about?

Dan Ilic  3:21  
The Op Ed was essentially that both major parties are bound to go through enormous soul searching and which is absolutely true. But he doesn't actually admit that climate change was the reason why these independents exist. He said this was clearly a referendum on the likeability of Scott Morrison. That was, that was what he pinned the whole election on. And like when you see a half a party disintegrate because they want climate action. Yeah, didn't even bother to acknowledge that this is a guy who can't acknowledge climate change is happening. This is a guy who can't acknowledge that, that renewable energy actually works. So this made me laugh out. So

Jan Fran  3:57  
that's so weird, because it is. I mean, obviously, it was a major part of why the election went the way that it went. But I like to call this crossbench the fuck around and find out crossbench. Around for 15 years on climate policy, and give us nothing but climate inaction, you're gonna find out that there's only a certain degree to which you can push the Australian people before they push back. And this was it. Yeah.

Dan Ilic  4:20  
And it's something we will we'll talk with our guests about, but it certainly feels like the adults are in the room, you know? Yeah. Finally, the mums have come to Parliament to sort us out.

Jan Fran  4:29  
Yeah, my, the thing that I would like to take issue with this week is, is and look, I'm just going to preface that far be it for me to defend Peter Dutton, which I don't usually do anyone who knows me knows that. However, on this occasion, I'm just I'm going to choose to do that because of some commentary made by one. Tanya Plibersek. about the way that Peter Dutton looks. Take a listen. This is what she said on radio this week.

Unknown Speaker  4:55  
Well, I think there'll be a lot of children who've watched a lot of Harry Potter films who will be very frightened of what they're seeing on TV at night. That's for sure. Well, what you're saying he looks strange, it looks odd. unsane looks a bit like Voldemort.

Jan Fran  5:13  
Ah, that wasn't nice.

Dan Ilic  5:16  
That smacks of someone who's just having too much adrenaline through their system.

Jan Fran  5:21  
Yeah, I heard that. And I was like, Oh God, I kind of did a bit of an Iraq because I'm like, you know, I just I think let's just let's, let's stay away from the way that people look, because that's a downhill trajectory for me. If you start pointing the finger at who's fog? And who's not in Parliament? Yeah. You know,

Dan Ilic  5:40  
yeah, there'll be like, there will be no thing. Like if we've only got 10 fingers each as a species. It's very difficult. The other thing is

Jan Fran  5:48  
I kind of I reckon she knew exactly what she was doing. Cuz she can't, she said that and like anyone who hears that he's gonna go, oh, yeah, I guess he kind of does look a bit more, you know what I mean? And that's gonna,

Dan Ilic  6:01  
I mean, it's also cheap. It's also basically riffing on a meme that's been going around the internet, ever since Peter Dutton has been in office. Really, what you want to say is he's going to move from a regular potato to becoming a sweet potato. That's what you want to be. That's the transition we're looking for. That's what we need to use. today. I was really happy myself when I was talking about that.

Jan Fran  6:24  
Maybe, maybe, maybe it's coming. Maybe it's coming. She did apologize. I should preface that she apologized unreservedly, but you know, damage is done.

Dan Ilic  6:31  
And also you shouldn't be using copyrighted characters. Because otherwise, you know, JK Rowling is going to come down there and sue you.

Robbie McGreggor  6:40  
Jam has issues. So,

Jan Fran  6:44  
so many interesting things happened on Saturday, I'm trying to work out what it is that I particularly want to talk about on the potty. And we've decided that there were two sort of things that really stood out for us, Dan one, the so called women's vote, not just the vote, but women running as candidates.

Dan Ilic  7:01  
Yeah, women women can completely deserting the major parties, women running as independents. This is a huge, huge moment for women in Australia.

Jan Fran  7:11  
I think this parliament will have a record number of women representing Australia, both in the Lower House and in the upper house. That is extraordinary.

Dan Ilic  7:23  
Yeah. And in the upper house, I think it's more and more women than men in the upper house as well.

Jan Fran  7:26  
Yeah, exactly. And the other thing that we wanted to talk about was I know everyone's talking about the TEALS like tail tail is the color of the election, but there is another color. There is another wave on the horizon, my friend. What were we

Dan Ilic  7:39  
talking orange? Okay, we're not talking aubergine aubergine. We're not talking sunny side up, which is the color of my kitchen.

Jan Fran  7:50  
My dude we're talking green, the green have had a record victory. This election. They are on track. They haven't picked it up yet. We're recording on Friday. So with that may have happened. But they've got three seats in the lower house. They may pick up another one which will give them four seats in the lower house.

Dan Ilic  8:09  
Yeah. And what's what's extraordinary is that the seats they picked up are in Queensland, Queensland. That is that is epic. That is the epic story of, of this election that climate bears is climate as the big story. Women is the big story. And independents are the big story. It's a huge, huge, huge election.

Jan Fran  8:28  
Did you ever think that Queensland was going to be greens heartland? Because if they did three seats, which they picked up Ryan and Griffis and they're vying for Brisbane, it's, it's great heartland.

Dan Ilic  8:41  
Yeah. In Brisbane goes, I'm moving to Brisbane baby. They're my people.

Jan Fran  8:47  
So coming up on today's show two wonderful guests for you. We're going to start with the legend herself. What a way to finish the final episode of the podcast. Grace Haim is joining us talking about the women's vote. And whether her side I brought down the pm she's a lot more humble than I am. I'm giving her full credit. And then we're going to talk to Elizabeth Watson Brown who won the seat of Ryan in Brisbane. She's a Greens candidate. She's heading to Canberra baby.

Dan Ilic  9:17  
Yeah, I'm excited. Yeah.

Jan Fran  9:20  
Well, without any further ado, why don't we bring on our first guest Grace time. Welcome to the podcast Grace team. What a pleasure to have you on the last episode of Jan Fran has issues after this hectic election. What did you think of the result? Well,

Grace Tame  9:39  
I thought it was pretty awesome.

Dan Ilic  9:44  
Can I share the message that I sent you and your your reply to Jen? Yeah. Oh, gosh. As the results are coming in, I said amazing. Fuckit eBuy. And then Grace team replied, who's frowning now ball have

Grace Tame  10:12  
anything to do with the agenda at all?

Dan Ilic  10:14  
So how did you feel like race talk? Talk us through your night? What were you doing tennis a picture of how you were taking it all in?

Grace Tame  10:20  
Well, Max and I had snuggled ourselves up on the couch. One of the things that was really empowering and hopeful to me as someone who's been a lifetime swing voter, and someone who votes with their conscience, and isn't, isn't, despite what the media and a lot of you know, critics of mine say, you know, is that it isn't about party politics, like one of the things that's really hopeful to me is that we've got this, like, different sort of mood, we're at least moving towards a slightly different structure, as opposed to something that's that's purely about this two party system.

Dan Ilic  10:57  
What excites you about that new structure? And and how you could see politics rollout in Australia?

Grace Tame  11:02  
Obviously, we've had independence before Simon Holmes, a court who is sort of saying on an episode of q&a, I think it was last year, you know, he was saying, oh, like, How good would be if we just had two or three, you know, climate, climate focused independents, and, you know, we've got 11. And, you know, the greens had their best result yet, we've got the, the most indigenous representation that we've ever had, we've also a 57%, female majority in the Senate. Now, certainly, we've got a long way to go, in terms of actually reflecting the truth of the diversity of our nation and of the community that elected these representatives. But we're getting a little bit closer to reflecting the diversity and inclusion, the values of the community that elected our leaders and, and sort of breaking down these myths of what what really governance and leadership should be. And I think, because, you know, a lot of the things that we're conditioned to believe about society, and what really we need in order to create order, and structure and 40. A lot of those things are often actually just constructs that are, you know, manmade

Jan Fran  12:18  
ideas. Yeah, they're not inherent, they're not

Grace Tame  12:20  
inherent. And, you know, there there are some members of the commentariat, perhaps, at the older, white male end of the spectrum, who will tell you, you know, oh, this is not gonna work is just gonna be a scammer. Wow. And, you know, well, let's, that remains to be seen. Let's see how it goes. But I actually think that, you know, and labor still has the majority, like crying out loud. And let's just, let's obviously see how it goes. And yeah, there have been a lot of ambitious commitments made early on, you know, that Uluru statement and the entirety the respective work report and climate action and other such, you know, pretty ambitious moves in a pretty tenuous time globally, as well as nationally. So it'll be interesting to see what actually comes of a lot of those promises. But certainly, I think that, like, let's give it a crack. And I'd say what happens,

Jan Fran  13:22  
like lots of people are talking about, you know, the so called women's vote, which, like, women are not a homogenous entity, so to speak. But there were, you know, a record number of women elected into Parliament this week. So both women running and also women voting, we don't exactly have the stats broken down by gender for this election. But we know that like, over a period of three decades, you know, women have kind of been slowly abandoning like the coalition and the Liberal Party. And since the last election, that sort of ramped up a lot. Did you kind of expect the Liberals to get such a battering from women this election? And do you reckon that you had anything to do with that? Did your side i bring down the PM, that's what I'm trying to ask.

Grace Tame  14:11  
And I think, I mean, there are lots of circuit breaker moments. You know, and I think it's, it's all it's all part of it, but I mean, to you know, it was it was everybody who got out there and did, you know made their contribution? You think about what, what what it took to to take away that government, it was really just everyone getting out and writing numbers on a piece of paper. But that's what was that's what it was, and like yeah, aside, I, but that was a circuit breaker moment. It was, it was showing people that, you know, like you can actually frown in the face of the prime minister, and nothing will happen. The world won't end. You know, I won't blow up. For me as someone who is autistic and it's actually really struggled to Do you know like, like, I can't, if something is inauthentic, I really struggle to fake it around that I like see straight through it. So you know, it's very hard, you know, when, again, when the media goes, oh, you know, like, Oh, you're so lucky and endless, like, Yes, I am, in a lot of ways I've had a good life. But also, like, there's a lot that there's a lot more layers to that. But one of the things sort of, like, the point that I'm trying to make is, I suppose that what I saw throughout my life, and the way that I lived it is that one of the things that enables these cultures to persist is that people really just allow a lot of stuff that, you know, it could all it all it sometimes takes is just to standing up and making one small gesture. Yeah. And there's this, I talked about it in the last few days, because one of the things that really contributed to this election was a huge part of it, is this crisis of narrative manipulation in Australia that permeates the media landscape, you know, where it's just subtle things, but really, the cumulative effect of them is, is like grooming. And it's like falsehoods, like lies are being sold to us as facts, you know, and like, you know, disinformation is being masked, disguised as controversy softened, as you know, you know, normalize them like, and that's how this hate campaign that was, you know, that was driven by the Liberal Party was really allowed to run.

Jan Fran  16:44  
Yeah, yeah. But it's like what you were sort of talking about, though, Grace. It's like, the language is just couch, it's softened. You know, it's like, it's not like, Oh, I'm definitely saying that this happened. I'm just bringing up a question. And it's couched in like asking questions, or, as you say, controversy, which has the same kind of impact.

Dan Ilic  17:04  
And I feel like there's previous government was so good at wearing down the media as well, actually bullying the media to a point where they tried to get narrative their own way through sheer force, through the AFP raids on and ABC and things like that, as well as just constantly bullying the media into submission around things like climate and stuff like that as well. Like, if this was a completely toxic government that totally disassembled the Fourth Estate, soften the fourth estate. Well, you wonder,

Grace Tame  17:36  
you wonder about in the you know, because, you know, I don't know if you've read what Malcolm Turnbull had written about his, his experience of or his insights into the relationship that Donald Trump had with Rupert Murdoch, and how deferential Donald Trump was to Rupert Murdoch. And you wonder it so you wonder about, who was deferential to, to whom, in the case of, you know, the Liberal government, to the priests, like the previous government here, you know, you wonder who differs to whom?

Dan Ilic  18:15  
Yeah, I mean, even going right back to when Scott Morrison was immigration minister, the, like, the banning of reporting of boat arrivals, like the banning of reporting, like

Jan Fran  18:26  
Yeah, it was just it was it was sold as suddenly we heard the phrase on water matters, and we don't talk about on water matters. But of course, on water matters was just a phrase that was made up by Scott Morrison to mean something, when in fact, it means nothing. It just is a way of saying we can't we're not going to be talking about boats coming here. Because,

Grace Tame  18:46  
like the gas, the gas lit recovery, what does that even mean?

Jan Fran  18:51  
Yeah, I mean, do you think things will? Or do you? Well, I'll just ask you the question more generally, like what do you hope will be different under elbow?

Grace Tame  19:00  
I mean, I just hope there's going to, I hope there's going to be more transparency, which I really do think we're already seeing, you know, if it's just the same, you bet you bet your ass I'll be just

Jan Fran  19:12  
Oh, I saw your tweet about elbow when he spoke to Alan Jones. Oh, I saw that.

Grace Tame  19:17  
Yeah, that's just I mean, that's just silly. Like,

Dan Ilic  19:20  
Grace, can we get you a new title? Can we get you Australian bullshit detector of the year? Is that gonna

Jan Fran  19:24  
be kind of looking forward, like ideally, is there anything that you feel like the top three things that you would really like to see implemented by this Labor government?

Grace Tame  19:40  
I mean, climate action would benefit everyone. But I think also to like, you know, when we when we think about and I think about, like, I think about our first peoples I mean, we they've been here first. And I think that Albert got it right in that was the first thing that he addressed right off the block. You know, his order of priorities was pretty dead on.

Dan Ilic  20:05  
He could just walk right over to Malcolm Turnbull's house and say, Hey, Malcolm, can you open up your lower drawer? I just want to get that statement of the heart. From where you last put Yeah,

Grace Tame  20:14  
yeah, no, I think I think he got it right. And yeah, I mean those three things like equality for all and I mean, it's not just women. I think it's it's gender diverse voices. It's it's everyone. It's the LGBTQI community you know, and people of color it's, you know, it's the marginalized it's it's refugees, it's migrants. It's um, it's people with disability you know, visible disability. invisible disability. Oh,

Jan Fran  20:45  
hi. Oh, here we go. Hey, it's all of us.

Dan Ilic  20:52  
Sorry, this is Elizabeth Watson she's the grains new member

Elizabeth Watson Brown  20:58  
you're an absolute hero grace so nice. Sorry to buddy and but respect respect.

Grace Tame  21:05  
Thank you, Ron. Congratulations. Thank you. Thank you absolutely wrapped and deservedly so. Yeah,

Elizabeth Watson Brown  21:10  
it's a little bit surreal.

Dan Ilic  21:11  
Grace, tell me one thing you're hopeful about heading into 2022 and 2023.

Grace Tame  21:35  
That Scott Morrison is not our prime minister. See the future so I don't I don't know. But I'm just hopeful. Like, you know, that it's not

Dan Ilic  21:52  
I've got some great news for you. He resigned a couple of days ago.

Grace Tame  21:55  
I love it. There's lots of things to be hopeful about.

Jan Fran  21:59  
I am I'm hopeful

Grace Tame  22:01  
I'm hopeful about this new again this new look of leadership that has you know, again, it's not it's it's we've got a long way to go but I think it's a good start

Dan Ilic  22:34  
 Grace thank you so much for joining us on Jan. Fran has issues

Elizabeth Watson Brown  22:39  
Okay. Elizabeth make you to Sorry, buddy. And I got to see I got to say goodbye to you. Yeah, and yeah. Legend.

Grace Tame  22:53  
Your legend too. And I hope good luck with everything and shake them up. That's what we're here for. You around and I'm so glad that you're going in there and Scott Morrison is not the person in charge because

Elizabeth Watson Brown  23:07  
I'm I'm rather glad about that too.

Grace Tame  23:11  
Like he lucky if it's something with my eyes that I do.

Jan Fran  23:16  
Well, hopefully you don't have to run into him both for your sake and seemingly his

Dan Ilic  23:22  
thanks to T.

Jan Fran  23:26  
Grace to former Australian of the Year she needs no introduction. The next person that we're about to speak to look she probably doesn't or she might need an introduction because she's going to federal parliament.

Dan Ilic  23:39  
Please I need to know all about this person. I am so keen to have a chat with Elizabeth Watson Brown. The new greens member for Ryan. By the way, Ryan is in Queensland.

Jan Fran  23:52  
Queensland please. Welcome Oh my God all the way from well, frankly, what is now the greenest state in Australia which I never thought I'd say.

Elizabeth Watson Brown  24:02  
Absolutely. That's where we're at baby. It's so good. It's so good. So

Dan Ilic  24:08  
Elizabeth, I love the butter advocate article that came out this week. They said a whole bunch of Queenslanders were looking down their nose at Melbourne because they only have one greens member that was perfect, wasn't

Jan Fran  24:17  
it? That was at the time of recording this Queensland has delivered to two federal green seats that are locked in for sure. And there's still a little bit of, you know, a toss up in the seat of Brisbane, which we're not sure how that's gonna swing. But we know that the Greens have picked up three seats in in in the House of Representatives, which is a historic Hi, how are you feeling?

Elizabeth Watson Brown  24:45  
Try not to swear.

Unknown Speaker  24:46  
I did no no. No

Elizabeth Watson Brown  24:49  
hair testing, you know, and It honestly feels like this is the beginning of real change. Real radical change, you know, and I said the other day, it's like the tectonic plates of politics. is in Australia, absolutely shifting. And it's, it's like it's all cracked open and people are going to get representation. And don't I feel much happier about Australia I feel happier about being a Queenslander. I feel happier about being Australian, because Australians want this to happen. And that was so clear. You know, we had a huge campaign. We, you know, year and a half, I haven't had a break. So I'm a little bit hysterical. But a year and a half of actually going out and knocking on 1000s and 1000s. We knock on half of the doors in the electorate. And we just knew that this is what people wanted to do. You know, like, we're, that's our massive poll. We're asking people what's concerning them and what they want. And we knew that this was what they want. So we could feel it shifting. You know, we could feel the power of that before election night.

Jan Fran  25:47  
For those listening who might not be across all of the seats. Ryan in Queensland, just very quickly, just tell us a little bit about that seat and how it delivered a greens victory because when people think of Queensland, they don't really think of green seats in the Federal House of Representatives. What is the electorate of Ryan?

Elizabeth Watson Brown  26:04  
Okay, it's in the, it's in Brisbane, western suburbs of Brisbane. Brisbane is all defined by the snaky river. So we're across, we share boundaries with the other two significant green, you know, green and potentially green seats in in Brisbane, and they are Griffith across the river from us. And we've got a boundary that we share with Brisbane, which is sort of on a knife edge at the moment. So we're sort of western suburbs, there's a lot of leafiness, you know, that's code for, but it's also

Jan Fran  26:31  

Elizabeth Watson Brown  26:34  
highly educated, I'm just not far from the University of Queensland at the moment, we've got sorrow and all that. But we've got real diversity, you know, so we were knocking on doors in the leafy suburbs, but also in the suburbs, which, where there are people struggling with potential homelessness, and all of the challenges, you know, that our great, you know, kind of platform of policies is there to address. And so it was just remarkable. And I spoke to many of these people myself, I've been Yeah, I've been absolutely pacing the streets up in the hills and the Dales of beautiful Ryan, which is kind of got a lot of machinists out on the edges of it. But it's also got out of suburbs in the suburbs, and it goes right into the kind of urban center of the city. So it's an incredible kind of cross section of Australia. So it's a really good test case, I reckon, for how we're going to progress politically in the future. And, you know, talking to people and just going to, and asking people at the doors. So how have you been feeling about things, you know, how are things for you, and if even if people were the sort of people who said, We hate politicians, it's all broken, hate you. As soon as you, you know, lend an empathetic ear and ask people how they've been going because people have been beaten around the head. You know, for years now. It's almost like an outpouring, it was almost like a kind of a counseling session. And so just that personal connection, and so many people said to us, this is the first time anyone has come to my door and asked me those questions. So you know, so there you go, that just shows the gaping, more, you know, the gap, that is other politics in Australia, this huge gap in terms of, and what what, what became really obvious to us real gap and sort of nothingness in terms of any policies that were being offered by the old parties. And we came to the election with this incredibly comprehensive, you know, plan about all of the interrelated things in people's lives, you know, not just climate change action, but all of the social stuff about health care, you know, about education about all the stuff that people actually need, you know, to give a good life, which is what we're living a good life. That's what we're about, and people, people responded to it. That's what people want. And it's just been so incredibly satisfying. And even. And I'll stop in a minute, I realized I shouldn't be taking 10 different sentences, but I am a little bit hysterical. And it's

Dan Ilic  28:59  
understandable, I'm sure your adrenaline levels.

Elizabeth Watson Brown  29:02  
I haven't had a chance to have a break. But you know, the very day after, and I found out about wedding on the actual night of the election. I'll tell you about that later. But day after just going to the local coffee shop, people coming up to me and say, Elizabeth, thank you. Thank you. We we have woken up today. Feeling hope. And we haven't felt that for a long time and feeling proud that we live here, you know, so that's been so that's why I've been to in tears.

Dan Ilic  29:33  
I can imagine in your electorate. It's quite a climate vulnerable electorate, isn't it? Did you have some? You had some major issues with the floods what was what kind of impact do you think that had on the electorate huge.

Elizabeth Watson Brown  29:43  
We could we could see the mood changing. We were getting out to lots of people were having good conversations, but this year, the anger started rising and people are actually feeling directly and really linking you know, that real experience of climate change the latest flood For that we've had literally in their backyards and in their own lives. And so we were always able, you know, whatever was troubling people and whatever struggles they had, including the floods, and we helped them through their people, we could draw a very direct line between their lived experience and what the greens are talking about and what the greens are offering. And the power of that has been absolutely huge.

Jan Fran  30:25  
How do you see the next few years panning out? Because this crossbench this is a this is a new crossbench in the history of Australia. I don't think we've had a crossbench like this. What do you reckon? How? You guys gonna negotiate? Are you going to get drunk on power?

Elizabeth Watson Brown  30:46  
Well, we think we hold the balance. Oh, my God, you know, the state of Brisbane, for example, my mate Steven nailbiting over there? Well, they're scrutineering. The count, you know, so it's gonna go either to Stephen green, or labor there. Remember,

Jan Fran  30:59  
we're recording this on Wednesday, by the time you might, you might be listening to it. Now, we may already know who has won the city of Brisbane, but it is Wednesday for all intents and purposes. Yes.

Elizabeth Watson Brown  31:07  
Yeah. And so that's, that's on a knife edge. So you know, whether we're in balance of power, which would be fabulous, or not, we're actually going to be just pushing for these things and negotiating for them inside the house. You know, kind of being part of those discussions about what the future should be. And I think it's pretty patently clear,

Dan Ilic  31:28  
Elizabeth, what are the lit? What are the leverage points? If you don't have? If labour doesn't have a minority government? What are the leverage points for you? Like what, what buttons can you push to get desired outcomes, stronger emissions? Things like that.

Elizabeth Watson Brown  31:44  
I think it's just always been there pushing, pushing, pushing the case, debating it. You know, being involved in obviously, you know, the legislative numbers should mention also, you know, we mentioned the Lower House seats, we've also got a new green senator in penny on and paid course, yeah. So we'll have balance of power in the Senate, you know, so that's a very powerful negotiating position, there'll be a huge block, including the tails of people who are concerned about exactly the same issue. So I think even if we're not imbalanced the power, we will be in a very good arguing kind of position, as well. Yeah.

Dan Ilic  32:18  
At least in question time, you can all say boo at the same time, and it will be a lot more effective.

Elizabeth Watson Brown  32:23  
Exactly. Yeah. And there'll be a lot of a lot of powerful women there, you know, isn't that interesting? It's going to have a completely different complexion from any parliament that we had have ever had before. And there's just something so sort of bolstering and empowering about that as well.

Dan Ilic  32:43  
What I find about particularly the to independence, these are women you don't want to mess with. I don't want to cross any of them.

Elizabeth Watson Brown  32:54  
Can I put my hand up for that, too? Yes, you totally. I am a woman who has worked for yonks, like 40 years. And I know you can tell by looking at me, I'm no spring chicken, in my profession, which is a very male dominated profession. So when people said to me, and that is my real name, not my election name. People said to me, when I when I was asked to run, I decided I would crumbs that's going to be pretty, you know, it's a pretty tough and rough game you hadn't, you're going to be okay. And I said, I've worked in architecture in the building industry for 40 years. I'm no shrinking violet. And it's not about me. So I think I can handle that stuff. Thanks. I think if you had a long, you know, professional career, and you've been around, you've done other stuff as well. You know, bring it on, I say, because again, it's not it's not about me, it's about what we've now got this most amazing kind of mandate to do. And that's what really touches me. And all these people have been coming up to me and bringing their friends up to me and saying, Thank you, thank you, we've woken up, we've now got hope. That is the most enormous privilege and responsibility as well. And I think about all of those people who came up to me on pre polyps said, Elizabeth, I've voted forever as a liberal or whatever. And this time I'm voting for you because this is what I've experienced in my life. They have never answered that for me. They're problematic. One woman came up and said, I voted liberal 25 for 25 years, Elizabeth, I'm voting for you this time because Scott Morrison is a fucking asshole. And, and there were a bunch of liberal ladies beside me handing out how to votes. And he said, I hope you heard that. You know,

Dan Ilic  34:37  
that was Elizabeth Watson. Talking about one of her constituents does not necessarily

Elizabeth Watson Brown  34:43  
represent my opinions because what someone shared with me

Jan Fran  34:48  
or anyone that you're hoping not to run into while you're in Canberra, anyone that you're hoping to avoid for the next level.

Elizabeth Watson Brown  34:56  
I've been reasonably careful about that. You know, I'm not personally swearing about individuals, but Well, I did. We did have a pretty interesting candidate forum one day at the at a, you know, Chamber of Commerce out and near Peter Duttons electorate. Peter Dutton was there as was, you know, the local MP here at the time. And again, I didn't mince words, I suppose I wasn't rude. But they went there. They went there thinking, Oh, great, we're in. We're in our space. You know, we're in a chamber of commerce, everyone's going to ask us about small business or whatever. But all of the questions from the floor. Were about refugee policy. We're about climate action. You know, we're about health care policy and all of that to both Dotto and, and and our local member. And so it was so interesting, you know, you could feel the winds of change, and

Jan Fran  35:52  
Don't call him that I am absolutely not prepared to give him a name. That is no fun. Sorry. I remember him saying that there was a mistake to bring Lebanese people to Australia. I've not forgotten. My people don't forget, we don't mind people

Elizabeth Watson Brown  36:11  
and keep, hang on to that. Hang on to that hang on to that thought, yeah. But it wasn't a benign atmosphere for them even in a place that they thought they were going to be comfortable. And they were with friends, because everyone was asking them about these things. So it was pretty obvious in that room at that time, that that's what people were concerned about. So I don't know how teeny ad you can just keep me. But this is what the what everyone's been saying.

Dan Ilic  36:37  
Yeah. Let me ask you this. How did the climate independents managed to pick seats where there weren't strong green contenders? Or was there any kind of collusion that didn't want to pick up a phone to figure out this?

Elizabeth Watson Brown  36:52  
Well, it's interesting, when I met with them, I met for a kind of a nascent voices of Ryan group before Christmas, who reached out to me and I reached out to them as well, you know, I knew that it was happening. And they were having meetings, it was all about, you know, let's, let's talk about politics in Ryan. And let's let's engage with things. I had a really good meeting with them. I don't know whether they were planning at that stage to run a candidate. But we certainly had a a good chat about who I was and what we you know what we were standing.

Dan Ilic  37:29  
So maybe they were too intimidated by you. Browns, got her shit sorted. Let's go here.

Elizabeth Watson Brown  37:35  
I don't know, I don't know. But you know, they have been pretty supportive and interested in what our campaign has been doing. Because there's so much alignment really, between what the tills are talking about what the greens are talking about. But the TEALS is basically talking about three things, which are just some elements that we agree with. And we all know what they are, you know, its integrity, its treatment of women, and its action on climate. We are all interested in those things. I'm really interested in working with them on that, but our platform and our concerns are so much broader than that. Nothing. People are really interested in here.

Dan Ilic  38:08  
We've had, we've had, we've had Adam on the show, and every time so he said, Yeah,

Elizabeth Watson Brown  38:12  
I'm a fan. I listened to all you. I'm Jen from Def Jam. You gotta be nice to me, right?

Dan Ilic  38:22  
Oh, no, let me just click Log into Patreon. So if you're a Patreon

Jan Fran  38:28  
flattery will get you every every way.

Elizabeth Watson Brown  38:30  
I'm learning this media thing. I am so new to this game. But

Dan Ilic  38:36  
it is. So it is so refreshing to talk to you at the very start of your political career.

Elizabeth Watson Brown  38:41  
Before I just become poisoned and jaded.

Jan Fran  38:46  
Yeah, we'll check back with you in three years. See if you're still

Dan Ilic  38:50  
talking about moving forward and working families.

Jan Fran  38:54  
All right, the next three years, what is what's what's your one great hope for the next three years? Look,

Elizabeth Watson Brown  38:59  
I really do want to be part of you know, real action on climate change. It is just, it's not quite too late. But it's bloody late. You know, and, and that's certainly been. And I want to represent the people of Ryan, and that's in front of mind for them. We know that more than 75% of REITs are really concerned about that. And that's been the kind of linking thing across all of the different groups in Ryan, all the different sort of socio economic groups and interest groups and things like that. The underpinning thing that's common to everyone is the desire for that. So I see that as a major, you know, element of what I want to do there,

Dan Ilic  39:36  
so So what would you say to a cop in Brisbane, just before the Olympics, do you think that's a good idea?

Elizabeth Watson Brown  39:43  
Yeah. Yeah, I think so. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I think so. Yeah. It's not something I've really thought about or addressed. But anything that means that we kind of discuss and collaborate things in a more thorough and deep way are good.

Jan Fran  39:58  
And how would you sort Climate change to a cop?

Dan Ilic  40:04  
Specifically, specifically, specifically one cop Datto.

Elizabeth Watson Brown  40:09  
Yeah, yeah. To a cop, same thing. This is about the future for all of our children and grandchildren. That was a big driver for me as well. I mean, I've been very sort of politically interested person. But a big driver for me when they started asking me whether I would run was that feeling that I couldn't sit by anymore? And just witness? Just watch what I felt was the future being stolen from the children and the grandchildren. Yeah.

Dan Ilic  40:35  
Elizabeth, one last question for now you're a new member of parliament, who are you going to deliver your first novelty check to

Elizabeth Watson Brown  40:44  
I actually was at a ceremony this morning as a kind of a proto MP, we're a big novelty check arrived, and I was so excited. I love it novelty. I think it'll go to a Women's Refuge. I'm really proud as an architect the best project they ever did. And lots of them have been glamorous and kind of, you know, they get published, they've been published in magazines. But the one that I'm most proud of, is designing the first purpose built refuge for women and children. Escaping domestic violence. No one will ever see it because it has to be secret. So I think it would go to a group that supports supports that. Yeah. Thank you. All right.

Jan Fran  41:20  
That's a great cause. And he here to more action on climate change with the majority of the Australian people want so good luck in the bearer.

Elizabeth Watson Brown  41:28  
Thanks. Great. Great to meet you and grace as well, because I bought it in early. Thank you. Thanks so much. Thanks a lot. Have a great day. Bye bye.

Robbie McGreggor  41:41  
Yeah, I'm Fran. House issues.

Dan Ilic  41:44  
The future Queensland, perfect one day, green the next.

Jan Fran  41:50  
Yeah, man, it's been a it's been a hectic week, I'm looking forward to seeing how this parliament kicks off. Because it really is. It's a parliament that we've never seen before. Never seen it very excited.

Dan Ilic  42:01  
It's gonna be super interesting to see just how this it looks like Labour's gonna get the majority. But it's going to seem to be just how these new faces in Parliament can hold labor to account in the lower house and what kind of pressure they can lean on labor for to kind of get those emissions reductions. So that's what I'm looking forward to

Jan Fran  42:18  
say indeed. Well, folks, I think I think we've come to the end of the last episode of Jan Fran has issues.

Dan Ilic  42:26  
Jen Fran, it's so fun to be your co pilot hanging out with you as you delve through the issues. Oh my God, we've gone through all the issues in all the issues

Jan Fran  42:35  
possible. I mean, there's there's quite a number of issues actually, that we haven't gone through, but we've gone through the main ones, you know,

Dan Ilic  42:43  
there are definitely some outstanding Yeah. Look, I just want to say a big thank you to you, Jan, congratulations on getting this podcast up and going. I also want to say a big thank you to our producers. Frank Lopez and Caitlin sorry, thanks, guys. All the way from from sunny from the from sunny Queensland themselves. Look at them. We're in the greenest state in Australia. So

do you think do you think do you think because you you produce this on the Sunshine Coast that the this whole podcast has a green slant for a reason?

Jan Fran  43:13  
Oh, look, we're still in a very safe Well, look, I don't drink too far. They're not they're not in inner city, Brisbane just yet.

Dan Ilic  43:23  
And if you are a corporate person, you know, you're like, Gee, I wish we had an eight part podcast. You should get in touch with F and K media. That is such a great job on this one.

Jan Fran  43:31  
They really did. I'm just I'm also just gonna speak them very quickly. For anybody listening who wants radio audio producers out there. You guys have been the best. Thank you so much. And also big thank you to you, Dan. Brown. Thanks to everyone. Thanks to the producers. Thanks, Dan. Thanks to you for listening. Thanks to me this and the Bear Bear.

Dan Ilic  43:52  
Thanks to the Jim Foundation who financially supported this podcast. Thank you so much for that, otherwise, this will absolutely happen. Also big thank you to our Patreon members and quite a few people signed up over the last few weeks. I'm just gonna read their names up very quickly. Tim Keegan Joe Clark, Andy Griffiths, Robert Hancock, Margaret balcom, Colin Jones, and Fairhead Hamish Brown, Sue Bush, Nina RG Hayden shore, and Peter tippet. Thank you so much for signing up. If you want to support a rational feed into the future, just go to forward slash, rational fear. And also a big shout out to the Gadigal land and the urination of where Jen and I reside. This land we stand up so yeah, big thank you to you, our listener,

Jan Fran  44:37  
thank you guys, and we really hope that you got something out of the podcast. And if you rocked up on Saturday and you cast your vote regardless of what it was. You're a legend. We hope you enjoyed the democracy sausage catch you next time.

Robbie McGreggor  44:53  
Jam Fran has issues brought to you by a rational fear

Unknown Speaker  44:59  
Good day

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